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| Forum Index >> Trade to Own New Parking Spot |   |
| Trade to Own New Parking Spot | Jade |
| I own a Parking Space at the very bottom of the garage parking. The Garage
Roof Slab above has been leaking on my car for three summers and two winters. The Engineer has tried to get it fixed but no success. Now, I want to sell my unit but no one wants to buy a unit with a leaing parking space. Therefore, I believe that the Board must trade a non-leaking parking space for mine, legally so that it is on my unit papers, just like my locker. I guess I have to go togo to a lawyer. Has anyone else seen this type of problem before? Can you give me some advice? |
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| ORIGINAL POST | Posted At: 2010-07-30 11:11:24 |
| Jade | |
| I would appreciate it if someone would help me | |
Posted At: 2010-08-03 13:29:44 | |
| leak defect in parking space; disclosures | Bob Driscoll |
| You may need to get a lawyer's advice; this is not it. Not being an insurer required to deliver 100% guaranteed engineering solutions, your corporation may or may not have proven itself to have met the reasonable standards of rectification, without having to ultimately purchase or re-allocate another owner's unneeded space ( ?) or the unlikely availability of a space neither privately-owned nor already allocated. You might to be wise to consider getting a qualified appraiser (CRA/AACI with condo experience) to produce twin valuations of your unit with and without a space, and then trying to persuade the corporation to settle by buying your current parking space as if intact. Would a surface space be available, subject to paying the difference either way ?
A dubious plan B : If your space is remote enough to raise the possibility of need for disability accommodation/ age or physical impairment, you would not be the first to pursue something at the Human Rights Tribunal. Hope something works for you , because OREA's notorious SPIS forms would likely require a disclosure unless the leak is "patent"/clearly visible. Happy to say that I have both sold and bought a home privately within the last 8 months, and avoided these notorious invitations to be sued ( see Bob Aaron LLB in ToStar) . Good luck with finding a solution. Bob Driscoll |
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Posted At: 2010-08-05 21:03:51 | |
| Spaces do not leak | Richard |
| The advice you have been given is flawed and does not solve the problem.
Who is telling buyers that your parking unit is flawed and defective? That is not correct as you descibed it. Space cannot leak. The garage itself is leaking into your parking spot. That leak is the garage, and that leak is owned by everybody. Fixing it is also everyones financial responsiblity and well as disclosure. Your engineers reports will tell you what is wrong. Your corporation and ALL sellers should be disclosing the garage is leaking and needs a major repair. It is not where the water ends up, that gets hit with the flaw. The water can move and find another owner to rain down on, so why are they waiting for it to flood another victim? The comment about the SPIS, is just one lawyers opinion who has a column to fill. He can't complain about builders now being on their board. The fact the owners got caught hiding defects, is still the fact. Since when do buyers ask for SPIS for parking units anywhere? If your board and corporation is not disclosing the true condition and costs to repair and remedy the situation, that is the issue that should be on the agenda at your next AGM. Your lawyer can advise you on your duty to disclose something anyone can see with their own eyes, and the fact the responsilbity is with the corporation to fix the garage. So far all of your damages are self-inflicted. Are owners disclosing their parking spots fill with snow when if they are located at the air vents? Most buyers don't even ask to see the parking spots, to see if their car will even fit, let alone its dry and not snow covered by the air vent. |
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Posted At: 2010-08-07 13:52:56 | |
| Jade | |
| Thank you for both of your posts. Bob, your remarks made me realize that our Board has never notified or filed a complaint to our Insurance Co. I believe they should have. If you read my post again you will see that I never said my Parking Space is leaking. In the first sentence, I said that the garage roof slab is leaking. My spot is at the very bottom of the roof slab and the water is coming down right on my car. Water or snow does not worry me. I am afraid of chunks of concrete coming down on my car. Since this crack in the Common Element (roof slab) has been going on for three years, I am afraid that the weight carrying capacity of the garage roof may be so impaired that heavy firetrucks couldnot go over that spot.I have been advised to report this danger to the City of Toronto. But, I was hoing that my own corporation would get it fixed. I want them to change Engineering companies because this one Engineer has failed us for three years. Do, you know you haveto get a permit to make major repairsto the common elements | |
Posted At: 2010-08-09 11:58:01 | |
| Jade | |
| I ran out of space above. I wanted to note that our corporation is in contravention of the Condominium Act, 1998, Section 89(1) for three years now. I have been reasonable. I asked the to seek the services of a new Engineering Co. That is what a reasonable person would do when the current Engineer tried three times and was unsuccessful. When they keep using the same Company, they are not truly tryingto fix the common elements they are not being serious.....Jade | |
Posted At: 2010-08-09 12:04:53 | |
| Jade | |
| Richard, I do not know what you mean when you say my "damages are self inflicted. I have no damages because I do not park there. But, everyone can see the water coming down heavuil.
We have three Parking Spots that are vacant and would satisfy me. Yes, the Board was supposed to have fixed the above common elements over these past three years. But, they have not been successful. I am worried about the danger of the soaking membranes of our building. I grew p in this area the Scarboro Bluffs are famous for Mudslides. My own conscience would make me disclose this problem with our Common Elements. I believe the Corporation should trade a good parking spot for my bad one. |
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Posted At: 2010-08-10 01:31:58 | |
| garage leak onto parking space; disclosuring | Bob Driscoll |
| Once again a lawyer's opinion (or lawyer's weight in your corner) may help you Janet; this is not it. Ontario's Condo act 1998 lays a repair obligation on your corporation s89 but not necessarily to rip the whole garage apart. If the cause can be portrayed as "natural deterioration" there will be no help from the corporation's insurer either ( except ? injury or vehicle damage) . One of those 3 vacant spaces may get you out cleanly, particularly if it would be more compatible with mobility/ physical challenge etc . ....
Bob Aaron (LLB)'s views about Ontario's SPIS are widely shared by many including myself. A half dozen of his ToStar columns have brought forward specific cases where purchasers' best weapon to go after their Sellers, was the SPIS disclosures only. Bob Aaron's June 26/10 column ( Cotton v Monahan 2010 ONSC 1644 at canlii ) clearly supports this. That judgment at s 46 and 47 cites the Ontario Court of Appeal's 'decision about disclosuring defects in McGrath v MacLean 1979 - 95 DLR (3d)144 OCA which can be read at canlii. (Mark ?) Weisleder(LLB)'s OREA reply in the ToStar to Aaron's criticism was a Nova Scotia judgment which fails to address Bob Aaron's central point : signing one of these upfront is an invitation to be sued. The Nova Scotia Seller ultimately escaped but not until after being dragged through civil court. Purchasers should do adequate diligence/ hire competent inspectors. Should the courts be additionally clogged by Purchasers too lazy or hurried to do proper diligence about resales ? Should a reseller be bound by a virtually an engineer's standards about functional renovations done years before ownership and long covered by drywall etc ? |
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Posted At: 2010-08-11 08:12:52 | |
| Richard | |
| Who owns those vacant spots? If you are asking the corporation to give you a common element it cannot. Real estate is also not a simple trade, their are deeds to transfer and register. If there is a mortgage your lender must also be aware.
Nobody has asked for any disclosure or a status certificate, so those concerns are not real at this time either. When do buyers or sellers ask for an SPIS for a parking unit or a locker unit? Considering that thousands of properties of sold with and without such a document, you can deal with it should it ever be a reality. If nobody uses the spot there is no damage and no loss, just speculation. The garage leaks --- what does it tell you in the engineering report? What are the remedies contained in that document? Did the board act on those? Is this a new problem, or patches that have failed just changing where the water moves? Is it rain water, spinkler water???? |
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Posted At: 2010-08-12 08:12:33 | |
| Jade | |
| Thank you for both posts. I will get back to answer your questions after I do some more research....Jade | |
Posted At: 2010-08-13 10:44:33 | |
| Jade | |
| Bob & Richard, I have read Bob Aaron's articles and agree that a seller should not sign the SPIS form.
I believe these Parking Spots are Mutual Use Common Elements. Our Garage Roof Slab is on a slant and the lowest point of the Slab is right over my spot. Therefore, gravity makes the rain/snow, sprinkler water fall down on my spot. But, I am not worried about the water as much as I am worried about the corrosion and deterioration of the Roof Slab. I am worried that a slab of concrete will come down at my spot. Now, a group of people have told me that it could not happen. But another group of people have told me that it could happen. They say the water and rust makes the slab weaker. Our Engineer has tried to fix the problem three times over three years but was unsuccessful. I have asked our Board to get a new Engineering co. I have sent them two Registered letters and have received no responser yet. I belueve disclosure must be made thru the Brokerage B something Act. |
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Posted At: 2010-08-13 11:31:57 | |
| Richard | |
| If the other parking spots are a indeed a common element, the cannot trade or sell it, since it belongs to everyone, and that would be a change to common elements.
Until such time as a real buyer makes you a real offer, there is nothing to disclose. Your Realtor will advise you accordingly. The status certifcate should be disclosing it, to all buyers --- not just yours. You should be checking that too. Why would this be an insurance claim?? |
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Posted At: 2010-08-13 18:03:30 | |
| Jade | |
| Hi Richard, as I said, I believe Parking spaces are mututal common elements. When the tower waws built, the mutual common elements were assigned to each unit. The Parking space at te lowest spot of the Garage Roof Slab was assigned to mine. I believe it would be ethical and responsiuble for the corporation to reassign a safer space to my unit and take on the assignment of tmy space to the corporation. We are now going into the fourth year of non success in repairing the Garage Roof Slab. I have given the Board ample time to choose another Engineering Co. that may be able to repair.
I have already notified our Auditor that he should have put a notice about this faulty common element in our Financial Statements and/or in the Notes. Then the Financial Statements would be in the Statuys Certificate for everyone to see. I believe it is an Insurance issue because if a chunk of pipe or concrete fell onto any car, they could sue the corporation. Because the common element belongs to the corporation |
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Posted At: 2010-08-15 11:58:26 | |
| Richard | |
| "IF" and that has not happened yet -- so nobody has a claim to make. Yes, the owner of the car would recover from the corporation, should real damage occur. Whether its insurance or just paid would depend on the extend of the damages, and the deductibles of the parites. The corporation insures the common elements.
If the parking spots are common element as you tell us, they have the duty of repair and disclosure. What is in the engineers report? |
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Posted At: 2010-08-17 15:38:10 | |
| Jade | |
| The Corporation has the duty to repair the defect in the common element, roof slab above. It does not matter what is below the leak. I am very worried that the membrane of the roof slab has been weakened and am worried that some concrete or pipe may fall down.
I have not read the Engineer's Report yet. All I know is that the very same Engineer has been responsible for this defect since 2007, when the roof slab started leaking. He has tried to find the source of the leak three times. Now, he has a new proposal to search elsewhere and wants us to pay more money for this search. He is now entering the fourth winter season with this leak unsolved. If I call the City of Toronto to inspect it, can they order the corporation to get a new Engineer to solve the problem. I know some engineering firms are better than others. |
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Posted At: 2010-08-18 12:00:28 | |
| Richard | |
| All those things may be true. But not your problem.
Get the report, include it as your disclosure - done deal! There is no car to damage, so that issue is off the table. |
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Posted At: 2010-08-18 13:55:41 | |
| Jade | |
| Thanks, I have asked the Property Manager for a copy of the Reports. There mst be many because it has been three years since 2007.
Here is something else new. I went to the City of Toronto and found out that a Senior Building Inspector had passed the work in 2008 as being successful. Then it started to leak again. Then they must have obtained another permit to repair it in 2009 and 2010. Also, the Sr. Inspector had the same last name as one of the employees who work for the Enbgneer. It might just be a coincidence. Or it may not. Perhaps I should get the Engineer's Report from the City. Would he have to submit a report in orderto get a permit? I am worried that a chunk will fall down on either of the cars beside my Parking Spot. |
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Posted At: 2010-08-18 22:13:47 | |
| Why worry | Richard |
| If the garage causes damage to any car, that is not yours, why would you worry?
It is not your concrete that is falling, so it is not your responsilbility. You have use of the space, the concrete is not yours. If the corporation damages a car - they are responsible. |
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Posted At: 2010-08-21 05:55:36 | |
| Jade | |
| Yes, Richard, it ius the responsibility of the corporation. But, I am part of the corporation. So I do worry
We have to care about our neighbours. Jade |
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Posted At: 2010-08-21 10:17:11 | |